ELP Guitar Tabs etc...

[Tarkus]

Posing a quick question on behalf of my brother. I think I've mentioned that he used to play guitar, but hasn't touched the thing in a couple of decades now. He dropped me an overnight email asking whether there is any ELP guitar parts written-down (he's especially interested in "Watching Over You" and the solo in "Pictures")... and I honestly don't know (obviously, my collection is all piano-style manuscript).

Any ideas? I figure if they're credible I could probably disassemble a MIDI file wherever I can find one and send him that. But before going to that trouble I thought I'd ask.

TIA.

:)

[SilverHamer]

I am usually successful in locating tabs with google. Although I don't use them myself, I get a lot of questions from people on youtube and myspace about getting tabs for a particular song I'm playing. Instead of just giving them a pad answer..."hey, kid, I don't use tabs, I've never used tabs, and I'm never GONNA use tabs, so leave me alone about it...", I usually do the nice guy thing and spend about 30 seconds on google and locate a link and post it back to them with a slightly varied rendition of the above comment...LOL.

However, it's my understanding that RAII and other musical agencies have been successful in having a few very well-known tab sites taken down...or at least the lion's share of their tabs removed. They are on about the copyright business over tabs now...it's freakin rediculous. Before they are finished, it will be next to impossible for kids to learn songs the way the majority of us did...by sharing info between friends...next thing you know they will want a fee if you play a song in a garage band down the street.

Anyways, Dave, give google a shot. I came up with these links for starters:

http://www.fretplay.com/tabs/e/emerson_lake_and_palmer/the_sage-tab.shtml (The Sage)

http://www.fretplay.com/tabs/e/emerson_lake_and_palmer/

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/emerson_lake_and_palmer_tabs.htm

It appears RAII has hit as I am unable to find the two songs you've asked about...ran into a couple dead links...dammit.

[MarkE]

Im a tab guru and use them all the time. Unfortunately, Larry is quite correct...these sites are being taken off line one at a time due to copyright issues. This is bullshit in my view. People still freely trade midis which are much more copyright intrusive.

If you like I can take a stab at locating those tabs if you cant find them

[SilverHamer]

If I were dependent on tabs I'd really be pissed because the vast majority of tabs I have seen were done by people who just took the time to sit down and tab out the songs. It's not like anyone is making any money from them (that I know of anyways). In my opinion, this is as stupid as MapQuest suing me for sketching out a map to my house on a piece of paper for a friend...or posting it on a flyer. God forbid that I would produce a rendering of the streets and highways without obtaining the expressed written permission...and paying a fee...to Map Quest or Rand McNally, or something. To me, tabs are the same. They are not...or in the past have not...been published by a musical publishing house like sheet music or music books...and they are generally targeted for a specific instrumentenal composition...such as Jimmy Page's lead solos, or Jimi Hendrix's licks on Fire...or something.

I did notice, however, that one of the sites I looked at last night still had the lyrics posted with the guitar chords annotated above the lyrics...which is basically how I learned to play in the first place. Any lead guitar riffs and bits that I know were either "noodled" out by ear (most of them), or by watching someone else do it (a few of them). I am so glad that I learned to do things by ears sometimes...and this is one of them. But if they can't post tabs, why can they still post the song lyrics with chords? I don't get that one either...oh well.

What REALLY frosts my ass...perhaps I'm on the wrong thread with this one...is that we have VH1 and MTV sporting such programs as "Save The Music" for kids in school and such...but then we have RAII and ASCAP, etc., cutting off their ability to learn popular music by crying COPYRIGHT over guitar and bass tabs. I think what has them going about on this is the fact that they aren't making any money from them...but then I don't know of anyone who has produced tabs who is either. So what the fook, over???

[MarkE]

I couldnt agree more. Back in NY we had an "on demand" cable show called Guitar Express. They would show you, in detail, and accurately how to play certain rock hits on guitar. They would show tabs and everything. Shit, I learned to play California Dreaming and other songs from that show.
Do you think they paid royalty for any of that stuff?? Fook no!!!

Add to that the scores of guitar, drum, bass etc instructional videos. Are they paying??? I think not. I have several just for Beatle hits. I have others for Hendrix, Stevie Ray etc.

This whole tab thing really chaps my ass big time. These tabs are amateur interpretations of original music. Shit, If I painted The Mona Lisa would Davinci sue me?

Assholes. I hope they get past this. Tabs are a valuable resource for budding musicians. It would be such a shame to watch it get flushed down the toilet.

Okay...off my soap box now :D

[Tarkus]

what i'm finding is that tabs and converting midi to score save me having to do the initial legwork figuring-out the chords and some notes... but, beyond that, they're pretty useless.

i'll use cem as an example - the initial chords and piano are correct, but the ending is all wrong (both chord progression and absolutely no piano arpeggios). it saved me a little work but i'm still having to reinvent the wheel... at least to a degree.

although it's not always that bad - the disassembly on both 'against all odds' and 'yotc' are both pretty spot-on. that may also account for how i'm learning them as quickly as i am (with fairly minimal practice).

btw, i'm a big riaa basher too... they're FAR to extreme in what they perceive to be appropriate copyright enforcement. what i find is that kind of clampdown only makes people want to go out of their way to rip them off... sort of a cutting-off their nose to spite their face result.

[MarkE]

I agree, but some tabs are deadly accurate. The guitar tab for "The Sage" is a prime example. Bass tabs are the same way.

You have to take em with a grain of salt. Like I said, its just the artist's interpretation. Some of these tabs are done by 14 year old kids :)

[SilverHamer]

And the fact that a 14 year old kid can do this REALLY chaps my ass...LOL. JUST KIDDING!

Ref Dave's comment about "that kind of clampdown only makes people want to go out of their way to rip them off...", I had never heard of Napster until I caught the breaking news about Metallica's big thing to do with them. I saw a few related news stories on MTV and read about it in magazines and stuff, and the way Lars was carrying on accusing people of "RIPPING OFF METALLICA"...well, I set up an account on Napster and downloaded every damned Metallica song I could find...and when Napster was finally taken down I used WinMX until I couldn't get IT to work any longer. Someone out there in the legal eagle department needs to figure out that if you push hard enough on the public over trivial shit in the name of the almighty dollar...well, the public is going to push back as hard as they can because frankly, we just don't want to hear a bunch of sniveling rich people making a big deal out of being ripped off by the public, when they in fact are on the public airwaves all the freakin' time. You can record radio anytime you like...

In fact, why doesn't RAII and other copyright watchdogs go after Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Dell, Compaq, Microsoft, and any number of OTHER entities whose products have been sold for several decades now which basically INVITE copyright infringement on a whole multitude of things...DVD movies, VHS Movies, Records, Tapes, CDs, and so on. It has been illegal to copy ANYTHING with a copyright for as long as these companies have been allowed to manufactor and sell the machinery which allows people to break the damned law.

Heh...Sony...there's an oxymoron for you. They have been selling music for decades, records, tapes, CDs, and marking them with copyrights warning people that it is illegal to copy them for ANY REASON...then they go and sell Cassette Recording decks, CD Burners, VCRs, etc. It is perfectly fine for them to make a killing selling that shit to us, but if we USE IT...we're in big trouble...go figure!